What do you think about launching a separate site for beer appreciation?

Question

There's a newer proposal gaining some amount of traction on our Area 51 site:

Beer - Proposed Q&A site for beer aficionados and collectors

The focus is significantly different from this one, in that it is aimed more at beer enthusiasts whose primary interest is not in brewing their own; identifying, choosing, storing, and serving beer are highlighted as tasks where this site would find a ready audience, along with perhaps some questions on the history and memorabilia attached to brewing. In my opinion, it fills a gap between this site and Seasoned Advice...

That said, there is certain to be some amount of overlap. Homebrewers often fall into the same group of experts that one would hope would flock to such a site; indeed, it's not hard to find questions here (asked from the perspective of a brewer) whose answers would satisfy likely questions on such an "appreciation" site. Indeed, appreciation has been listed in the list of allowed topics here for quite some time - though obviously in practice this is still geared toward brewers.

If you can spare a few minutes, look over the definition and discussions for Beer. And let me know,

• Would this be a site you'd be interested in participating on?
• Would it be appropriate to expand the scope of this site to cover the topics envisioned in that proposal?
• Would the existence of two separate beer-focused sites within Stack Exchange present a problem for the folks here?

For now, we're letting the proposal continue to collect commitments, as it isn't clearly subsumed by any existing site. However, I'm hoping to solicit the input of the good folks here before it reaches the threshold for launch.

Cheers,

Answer 1

One way it helped me see the difference between the two sites was to consider this HB site about the production of beer, while the other site is about the consumption of beer, and beer-related artifacts.

As noted, there will be some overlap, since homebrewers are both producers and consumers of beer. E.g. discussion of beer storage temperature and how long a beer lasts once bottled, would be relevant to both sites, although on the homebrewing site, the discussion would also include typical homebrewing equipment, such as corny kegs, which aren't used much outside of homebrewing and rarely encountered by the typical beer consumer.

One question on the proposed site, "How much of an impact does the water (minerals/quality/distilled) have on a beer?" struck me as possibly off-topic for that site, since it's mainly a production issue - a consumer cannot change the water used to brew the beer, and the impact of water and water chemistry in brewing is heavily discussed here since it is primarily relevant to brewers and not consumers. (Although an understanding of why breweries produce the beer they do because of the nature of the local water may be considered beer appreciation and worthy of mention on the proposed site, but any advanced treatment of the subject should be served by this site.)

Beer styles are occasionally discussed here, but typically from the perspective of brewing that style (e.g. process+recipe). Visitors are assumed to be aware of the BJCP or similar style guidelines as well as the basic differences between an ale and a lager. Yet, beer styles is very pertinent to beer appreciation and would be a good topic on the proposed site. Discussions of different breweries, beer history, nomenclature are also off topic here, but these also would be great questions on the proposed site.

Given that focus of the two sites is mostly distinct, I would keep the two sites separate. I would certainly contribute to the new site where relevant.

Answer 2

It seems to me that the entire premise of beer appreciation is subjective and therefore be very difficult to pose objective questions about. Stack Exchange is about objective facts, so I think this is a non-starter.

Answer 3

I don't think that there should be a cross-pollination between audiences for consumption and production. I think that many beer enthusiasts' eyes will glaze over after reading a few pages about proper sanitation, varieties of yeast, and hopping techniques. When I come to Homebrew, that's exactly what I'm looking for, and I don't want to wade past questions asking what a Kolshbier is. I believe that it would dilute the value for both audiences.

There is some overlap, but I daresay that the reasons are different. If a consumer wants to know what hops are in Beer X, I would wager its so that they can find (consume) more beers with that flavor profile. If a producer want to know what hops are in Beer X, I would again wager that it's so that he or she re-create that flavor profile. The initial discussion is the same, but the ultimate direction is different.

I looked at the proposal (now past definition and into commitment), and I looked at another site in definition: Alcoholic Beverages. The Alcoholic Beverages SE addresses everything that Beer would, plus the same for any other type of alcohol (wine, spirits, cocktails, etc.) Ultimately, I'm backing Alcoholic Beverages, and the reasons come down to objectivity and quantity.

I would posit that a significant portion of consumption is subjective, which not the purpose of SE. The community seeks to answer objective, unique questions. I think that when it comes to consumption, there will be far fewer objective questions, i.e. more "Which beer goes best with grilled octopus" than "How long can I reasonably store a bottle of Fifty-Fifty Eclipse". Obviously, subjective questions would get moderated out, but the upshot is that there's less quality content, and less quality content means less usage.

So if there's less content, then one way to bring up quantity is to broaden the subject matter. If you allow not just "Does a waxed beer bottle retain freshness better than a capped bottle", but also "Does a screwcap wine bottle indicate a lesser aging capacity than a corked one", then your content capacity expands greatly. In addition, most alcohol enthusiasts that I know are not single-minded; they will happily partake in a variety of beverages. Maybe not all, but almost certainly not just one type.

So I do back the idea of a consumer-driven SE, just one with a somewhat different scope.

Welp, this answer ended up being longer than I thought it would... :)

Answer 4

I came here to post an answer that I soon realized Denny had already addressed with his comment:

Personally, I would not use the site. Sites like Beer Advocate and Ratebeer,
despite their popularity, have gotten a reputation as a repository of biased 
opinions and know nothing advice. In order for a similar site here to be 
successful, it would not only have to distinguish itself from the existing sites, 
but also be able to deal with those kinds of issues. –  Denny Conn♦ Oct 11 at 15:07

It's one thing to be enthusiastic and optimistic about an idea, or a wish; it's another to have the foresight, based on a commanding grip on the reality of the relevant community, to see that the idea or wish will probably succeed or fail.

In his comment, Denny shows us how the idea in question could succeed and fail, with a warning that it could very easily fail. Subjectively, I agree with his assessment and I know many others (who don't post on this site) who feel the exact same way.

This Homebrew Stack Exchange is a small drop in the bucket when compared to other forums, even though we know that Stack Exchange sites are the hot trend in Q&A, these days. The homebrew community, itself, is just more of a "discussion forum" type of community, I suppose.

Beer Advocate and Ratebeer are trash in our streets. Please don't contribute to polluting this community with another site that represents a great ideal but, in reality, produces no real results.

Answer 5

I am not sure having a SE site devoted to consumption of alcoholic beverages, whether it is covers a narrow or broad range of beverages, is adding something to the overall community of drinkers that does not already exist. RateBeer and BeerAdvocate may be "trash", but they are wildly popular, as is the Untappd app. Reddit has subreddits devoted to beer appreciation and beer trading, as well as a reputation and voting mechanism. I am concerned that AlcoholicBeverages.SE (or whatever it is called) is just going to be a "me too" site with little traffic. In addition, moderating a forum where the answers range from fairly subjective to totally subjective is going to be a nightmare. Merely defining what is on-topic and off-topic seems fraught with difficulty. I will bet you dollars to dnoughnuts that whoever ends up moderating the site is going to end up turning off a large percentage of users who disagree with the moderator's opinions and decisions.

Homebrewing.SE has the advantage that, although home brewing allows for a lot of personal style, brewing is a fairly technical endeavor with a lot of scientific and physical underpinning, most of which can be tested somewhat empirically if you choose to do so. In fact, at the craft brewer scale and beyond, beer production is mostly an industrial, distribution, and marketing endeavor, rather than an artisanal undertaking like it is when you are closer to the home brew or brew pub scale.